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Hercules: You know, maybe someday I'll be ready to slow down, but, you know, for now, I'd rather just keep on walking. Care to join me?
Iolaus: Frankly, Hercules, I wouldn't have it any other way.
~ Full Circle

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Hercules Ep Of The Week 12: Pride Comes Before a Brawl

Author	Comment
xena321	Hercules Ep Of The Week 12: Pride Comes Before a Brawl	Lead	[-]
Royal Posts: 8395 (06/09/06 3:06 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None And so we come to: Pride Comes Before a Brawl So, any thoughts... what did you think of the story, the action, the dialogue, Any comments on the supporting characters? Any interesting developments for Hercules, or anything you like/dislike about Hercules and Ilous in this episode. Favorite/least favorite moments and lines? Rating on a 1-10 Hydras scale? _________________________________________________________________ Charmed 1998-2006 8 Seasons, 178 episodes. Goodbye Charmed
AreslovesXena	Re: Hercules Ep Of The Week 12: Pride Comes Before a Brawl	#1	[-]
Two Star General Posts: 2148 (06/09/06 11:11 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Could it be possible to add a short summary each time, with the Hercules eps? I've seen them all (well, almost) but don't know the tittles by heart. Please? Renee: Why she didn't have more boyfriends, yeah. I guess the relationship between Xena and Ares was so strong, too, that you didn't really need to bring anyone else in.
joxerfan	Re: Hercules Ep Of The Week 12: Pride Comes Before a Brawl	#2	[-]
Royal Posts: 7205 (06/09/06 1:42 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	My summary will also be my commentary. This is the one where Herc meets up w/ his old girlfriend Nemesis, i.e. Hera's enforcer of retribution. And he learns that she has come to punish Iolaus for pride. Little good-natured Iolaus! Go figure! But this is also the first time we see that Iolaus can totally carry an episode by himself (other than a couple of brief scenes in "The Wrong Path" ) - he gets more screen time than Herc, I think, as he has his own adventure with Lisa Chappell, playing a character named Lydia (but basically Dirce, just without the weird hair.) A wonderfully 3-d characterization of how anyone would feel overshadowed by someone like Herc. *Quote:* Iolaus, this. Iolaus, that. He thinks that because hes the son of a god, he can-- ah! know everything! Huh! Always in his shadow. Always-- always playing second lute to him. People always thinking Im his kid brother-- that doesnt know how to look after himself. [Yells] Right road or wrong road-- Im gonna be waitin for him in Thrace. Plus we get to see yet another great banter scene between Herc and Iolaus. I always thought it was interesting that ADITL was so popular since we got to see X and G being themselves... but we usually got about a minute or two of that with Herc and Iolaus every week. Also, interestingly, most of the action is handled by Iolaus, while Herc has a deeply philosophical discussion with Nemesis on the nature of destiny, pride, retribution, the gods, friendship, practically like a Socratic dialogue. Lots of action, lots of really witty dialogue, some fairly deep characterization...plus Karen Witter (the first of many Nemeses) and Lisa Chappell sure aren't hard to watch.
Elfrieda	Re: Hercules Ep Of The Week 12: Pride Comes Before a Brawl	#3	[-]
Olympian Posts: 13889 (06/09/06 3:06 PM) Miss Amphipolis Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Overall, not a bad episode. We get to see a lot more character development from Iolaus, which is good, because there were a lot of eps in this season in which he didn't appear at all. I think the development was a natural thing, considering he was Herc's sidekick - of course he wanted people to see that he could be a hero, too. It was also a bit of development for Herc, too, because he had to see that Iolaus had his own issues to deal with in being the sidekick of a half-god. He realized that Iolaus needed to be trusted as a hero, too, which we see in the final scene. I can't say that the interaction between Herc and Nemesis was all that exciting, but I think it was probably just a lack of chemistry. Hurst and Chappell had a lot more chemistry, and it was fun watching the two of them try to escape from the baddies. "An old hunter's trick . . ." One thing that I missed, though, was more interaction between Herc and Iolaus. By this time in the series, we actually hadn't seen them together that much, so it would have been good. I think my favorite part is at the end, when Iolaus is getting ready to shoot the arrow at the pomegranate (or whatever it was) poised atop Herc's head. It was a test for both guys - Herc had to trust Iolaus, and Iolaus had to conquer his pride. Awww. I give this episode 8 Hydra-heads.
CasualFan	Re: Hercules Ep Of The Week 12: Pride Comes Before a Brawl	#4	[-]
Four Star General Posts: 4376 (06/18/06 2:12 PM) Mostly Harmless Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	It looks to me like Pride Comes Before A Brawl marks the point at which TPTB finally settle on Iolaus being Herc's #1 sidekick, after experimenting with Tiresias, Sal, etc. It also displays their growing realization that Iolaus is an interesting character in his own right, played by an extraordinarily versatile actor and capable of carrying storylines on his own. This gave the show's producers and creative team tremendous flexibility - Herc doesn't have to be front and center in every ep, something that became very useful after Kevin Sorbo experienced his health problems in S4. This is also the first time we get to see Lisa Chappell as an important supporting character - she had some brief screen time in the Circle of Fire minimovie, but here she gets to carry a lot of the action and interaction with Iolaus. It's a pretty straight role, but we see glimpses of her flare for light comedy that would come to the fore in her later portrayals of Dirce, Princess Melissa and uber-Melissa Blake. I understand that she's a big name in Australia now thanks to her role in McLeod's Daughters - hope she still gets a chance to exercise her comic gifts in whatever she's performing in now! Karen Whitter is OK, but for me she's the least interesting of the 3 Nemesises (Nemesii?) that we saw during the series, perhaps because she got stuck with a lot of deep discussion and not much action with Herc. Why the gods have decided that Iolaus needs to die for his pride was never very clear - there had to be lots of other cocky clowns running around who were far more egregiously guilty of that sin. If Iolaus had claimed he was better than some Olympian at something, it would have made a lot more sense to sic Nemesis on him. In later eps, Nemesis was more clearly established as doing Hera's bidding (and rebelling against it), which made things a lot more reasonable as far as targeting Herc's buddies. The CGI was cheesy, but not horrendously so, and both Hurst and Chappell do a great job of "selling" the danger. The Hydra was certainly scarier than the goofy bad guys - they looked like members of that lodge Fred Flintstone used to attend. Iolaus and Lydia were able to handle them without much trouble. Fun ep, and an important one in establishing Iolaus as a principal character in his own right - 8/10 chakrams from me. Creator - A comedian whose audience is afraid to laugh.. - H.L.Mencken
MJuingong	Re: Hercules Ep Of The Week 12: Pride Comes Before a Brawl	#5	[-]
One Star General Posts: 1315 (06/18/06 5:03 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Interesting ep, well done, interesting theme. I liked Karen Witter a lot, she's very convincing and someone Herc would be attracted to as Nemesis. I find her and Theresa Hill to be very effective as Nemesis. It was the third one I found "blah". Chappel was a hoot.
xena321	Hercules Ep Of The Week 12: Pride Comes Before a Brawl	#6	[-]
Royal Posts: 8395 (06/19/06 12:04 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	There were 3 Nemesis right, well I do think the third one is and we be more well known, as the actress was on Lost, and I am part of a lost forum and she has a pretty big fanbase, and I hear shes coming back in the third season. Haven't seen Kimbery play Nemesis 3, but I have seen the other two. I do like the first one alot, however the second one I think stands out more. Any reason why they changed them 3 times, why couldn't they stick with one, or at least let the second one continue the role till the end. _________________________________________________________________ Charmed 1998-2006 8 Seasons, 178 episodes. Goodbye Charmed
Elfrieda	Hercules Ep Of The Week 12: Pride Comes Before a Brawl	#7	[-]
Olympian Posts: 13889 (06/19/06 2:45 AM) Miss Amphipolis Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	CasualFan wrote: *Quote:* Why the gods have decided that Iolaus needs to die for his pride was never very clear - there had to be lots of other cocky clowns running around who were far more egregiously guilty of that sin. If Iolaus had claimed he was better than some Olympian at something, it would have made a lot more sense to sic Nemesis on him. In later eps, Nemesis was more clearly established as doing Hera's bidding (and rebelling against it), which made things a lot more reasonable as far as targeting Herc's buddies. I was under the impression that, even in this early episode, Iolaus was targeted for being the best friend of Hercules. They had Herc's family killed for no reason, so I'd think the flimsiest of excuses would have gotten Iolaus on their hit list, too. Edited to add this quote from Whoosh! which seems to indicate that Herc thought that the gods were punishing Iolaus to get to Hercules: *Quote:* H: Hera. She ordered you to kill my friend-- because she cant kill me. Thats the kind of tyrant you work for.
GoalKeeper1	Re: Hercules Ep Of The Week 12: Pride Comes Before a Brawl	#8	[-]
Royal Posts: 8963 (06/19/06 4:02 AM) Gabrielle's Champion Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I don't really have much to add, except that I did like this Nemesis. Did anyone catch the cameo by producer Eric Gruendemann? Xena: "This is war! What did you expect-- glamor?! There are no good choices, only lesser degrees of evil." Gabrielle: "There is a choice-- to stop fighting!" -The Price
aerips		#9	[-]
Warrior-in-Training Posts: 85 (11/08/08 7:45 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	CasualFan wrote: It looks to me like Pride Comes Before A Brawl marks the point at which TPTB finally settle on Iolaus being Herc's #1 sidekick, after experimenting with Tiresias, Sal, etc. It also displays their growing realization that Iolaus is an interesting character in his own right, played by an extraordinarily versatile actor and capable of carrying storylines on his own. This gave the show's producers and creative team tremendous flexibility - Herc doesn't have to be front and center in every ep, something that became very useful after Kevin Sorbo experienced his health problems in S4. This is also the first time we get to see Lisa Chappell as an important supporting character - she had some brief screen time in the Circle of Fire minimovie, but here she gets to carry a lot of the action and interaction with Iolaus. It's a pretty straight role, but we see glimpses of her flare for light comedy that would come to the fore in her later portrayals of Dirce, Princess Melissa and uber-Melissa Blake. I understand that she's a big name in Australia now thanks to her role in McLeod's Daughters - hope she still gets a chance to exercise her comic gifts in whatever she's performing in now! Karen Whitter is OK, but for me she's the least interesting of the 3 Nemesises (Nemesii?) that we saw during the series, perhaps because she got stuck with a lot of deep discussion and not much action with Herc. Why the gods have decided that Iolaus needs to die for his pride was never very clear - there had to be lots of other cocky clowns running around who were far more egregiously guilty of that sin. If Iolaus had claimed he was better than some Olympian at something, it would have made a lot more sense to sic Nemesis on him. In later eps, Nemesis was more clearly established as doing Hera's bidding (and rebelling against it), which made things a lot more reasonable as far as targeting Herc's buddies. The CGI was cheesy, but not horrendously so, and both Hurst and Chappell do a great job of "selling" the danger. The Hydra was certainly scarier than the goofy bad guys - they looked like members of that lodge Fred Flintstone used to attend. Iolaus and Lydia were able to handle them without much trouble. Fun ep, and an important one in establishing Iolaus as a principal character in his own right - 8/10 chakrams from me. Creator - A comedian whose audience is afraid to laugh.. - H.L.Mencken Reviving this ancient thread to say that they had already decided on Iolaus as the main sidekick, but Michael Hurst wasn't available when they were filming the earlier episodes (he was directing and playing Hamlet) so they had to fill in with the other guys in the meantime. Otherwise, I pretty much agree with your assessment except that I give it a 10. Definitely one of my favorite episodes. The bickering between Hercules and Iolaus made them so much more real people than in many of the other episodes. I wish they'd made more episodes with this kind of feel.

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