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Gabrielle and the pinch

Author	Comment
xenares	Gabrielle and the pinch	Lead	[-]
Royal Posts: 3297 (07/19/09 9:41 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : xena, gabrielle, a friend in need, pinch, teach Hello! While I was watching the Friend in Need episodes, I heard Gabrielle say " Xena, you don't have to do this. I understand why would never wanna teach me the pinch." and I realised I hadn't ever thought about that . I have a theory but I would like to know what you're thinking. Why do you think that Xena never wanted to teach Gabrielle the pinch? Do you think it was simply ...coincidental and perhaps Xena wasn't really ever given the chance to teach Gabrielle the pinch? And do you believe that Gabrielle knew the reason in Friend in need I or that she said that because she wanted to reassure Xena? thanks Mstrss and Aurora for the banner, the keeper and the avatar :) No Xena, No Xenaverse!
30Seconds		#1	[-]
Villager Posts: 36 (07/19/09 9:46 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I think because she knew that it was a very dangerous technique.
xenares		#2	[-]
Royal Posts: 3301 (07/19/09 10:00 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	And she didn't trust Gabrielle to use it consciously? thanks Mstrss and Aurora for the banner, the keeper and the avatar :) No Xena, No Xenaverse!
Delicious Denial		#3	[-]
Two Star General Posts: 2407 (07/19/09 10:01 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I thought it was a reference to Akemi's supposed "betrayal" after being taught. Though I'm unsure how much Gab knew about that specifically. Thanks to LK for the keepership and bitext banners!
Superficial Mycosis		#4	[-]
Warrior-in-Training Posts: 35 (07/19/09 10:04 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The reason Xena liked having Gabrielle around in the first place was that she didn't kill, and while she did start killing a bit towards the end, the pinch is a move which, even if you don't use it to kill, puts the fear of death into the person you use it on. It's painful and its drawn out. Perhaps it's just something she'd rather Gabrielle couldn't do, because that isn't the kind of presence she wanted her to have. She fought because she had to and because it's right, not because she wanted to scare people into giving her information and such. ~ Xena is allergic to your ~ girlfriend stealing zealots. ~ A massive thank you to asteriski for the keepership banner!
xenares		#5	[-]
Royal Posts: 3306 (07/19/09 10:06 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Superficial Mycosis wrote: The reason Xena liked having Gabrielle around in the first place was that she didn't kill, and while she did start killing a bit towards the end, the pinch is a move which, even if you don't use it to kill, puts the fear of death into the person you use it on. It's painful and its drawn out. Perhaps it's just something she'd rather Gabrielle couldn't do, because that isn't the kind of presence she wanted her to have. She fought because she had to and because it's right, not because she wanted to scare people into giving her information and such. Yes, that's what I believe too . Let's see what other fans think. thanks Mstrss and Aurora for the banner, the keeper and the avatar :) No Xena, No Xenaverse!
Pandora10		#6	[-]
Two Star General Posts: 2804 (07/19/09 10:07 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I think FIN was meant to imply that Xena hadn't wanted to teach Gabrielle the pinch because of what had happened with Akemi. She'd taught Akemi the pinch and that hadn't turned out well. Although Xena must have had much more faith for a long time in Gabrielle and realised that Gabrielle was not likely to misuse the pinch like Akemi did, I think it's possible she thought it would be detrimental to Gabrielle's innocent and "light" if she were to know how to use that kind of power. The pinch is essentially a torture technique, and Xena didn't think Gabrielle would want to know something like that. It was all part of trying to protect Gabrielle from knowing evil. By FIN, she realised that she wanted Gabrielle to know everything she knew, including how to interrogate people with the pinch, because she believed Gabrielle could know the method without using it when it wasn't necessary, or perhaps because she knew Gabrielle was well used to dealing with having to inflict cruelty sometimes.
trancegem		#7	[-]
Royal Posts: 5565 (07/19/09 10:42 AM) XOC Forum Host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	xenares wrote: Superficial Mycosis wrote: The reason Xena liked having Gabrielle around in the first place was that she didn't kill, and while she did start killing a bit towards the end, the pinch is a move which, even if you don't use it to kill, puts the fear of death into the person you use it on. It's painful and its drawn out. Perhaps it's just something she'd rather Gabrielle couldn't do, because that isn't the kind of presence she wanted her to have. She fought because she had to and because it's right, not because she wanted to scare people into giving her information and such. Yes, that's what I believe too . Let's see what other fans think. I agree with that, and also because of Akemi, Xena realised gabrielle wasnt another Akemi, and wouldnt betray her PLA's Official Annoying People Deflector Staffer//Misfit At Everyone's Mercy//Smutt's Apprentice//"The Golden Chakram" Art Awards 09-10
Aresbitch		#8	[-]
Two Star General Posts: 2518 (07/19/09 11:17 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I felt that bit about the pinch in FIN was a bit of retconn, a way of adding Akemi to the overall picture of the show - yet another reason to completely dislike FIN. It makes Akemi some sort of omnipiscent presence hanging over X&G. Only Gab isn't allowed to know that. I don't recall it being an issue between them for six years. I figured Gab didn't learn the pinch for the same reason she didn't fight with a sword. It wasn't in line with her style of fighting, which, even in the last two seasons, were more defensive than offensive. The pinch is also a fine bit of torture, and I don't see Gabrielle wanting to cause anyone that kind of prolonged pain. Except possibly Ghurkan.
xenawp7706		#9	[-]
Olympian Posts: 12286 (07/19/09 11:29 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I think it was because Xena did not want Gabrielle to use a mortal weapon like that.
tasha9899		#10	[-]
Warrior-in-Training Posts: 122 (07/19/09 1:01 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I think it just didn't apply to the fighting style of Gabrielle, even up to the end. Though, I did find it so sweet in FIN how Xena wanted Gabrielle to know everything she knew. So, I don't think it was a matter trust. I mean, if it was a matter of trust, I don't think she'd have taught it at all to her.
asteriski		#11	[-]
Four Star General Posts: 2753 (07/19/09 6:10 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Along the lines of what's been said, I always took that line as Xena feeling like she'd always been responsible for Gabrielle's loss of innocence, and didn't want to do any further damage by directly teaching her something that can be used a weapon. ::keeper of Xena's raised eyebrow::
Aresbitch		#12	[-]
Two Star General Posts: 2519 (07/19/09 6:29 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	asteriski wrote: Along the lines of what's been said, I always took that line as Xena feeling like she'd always been responsible for Gabrielle's loss of innocence, and didn't want to do any further damage by directly teaching her something that can be used a weapon. But just for the sake of friendly discourse, isn't that a little bit like closing the barn door after the horse has run off? By late s5, Gabrielle already is something of a lethal weapon herself - her sais are as deadly as a sword if she chooses to use them that way. Not knowing the pinch isn't going to stop Gab from maiming or killing. In Who's Ghurkan, she used her feet and hands, and could very well have ended his life if she chose to. She didn't because of her morality. If anything, Gabrielle's choice not to avenge her family by killing Ghurkan should have shown Xena that Gabrielle wasn't like Akemi and could be trusted to know the pinch. In fact, if looked at it from the perspective of Xena being unwilling to teach Gab the pinch, she demonstrates a lack of trust in Gabrielle's judgment, based on Akemi's actions, even after Who's Ghurkan. Heck, even after six years of traveling together and the notion that they knew each other at all. Yet another reason FIN is one big, giant YAXI.
asteriski		#13	[-]
Four Star General Posts: 2757 (07/19/09 6:42 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Aresbitch wrote: Yet another reason FIN is one big, giant YAXI. I agree with that! I do agree it is a little like the barn door scenario too, but although Gabrielle is pretty lethal if need be, it wasn't something Xena had directly taught her - at least in my eyes. Xena was always reluctant to teach her anything like that, like in Return Of Callisto when Gabrielle's hell-bent on revenge, or when she first gets the staff it's the Amazon's influence (not Xena's), and the sai were nothing to do with Xena either. ::keeper of Xena's raised eyebrow::
Aresbitch		#14	[-]
Two Star General Posts: 2520 (07/19/09 7:13 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I sort of agree that the weapons that Gab wields aren't given to her by Xena, but it's not enough to say Xena didn't want her to have them or to teach her anything like the pinch. Just being with Xena, traveling with her, exposes Gabrielle to things, where making the kinds of choices she did, like in When In Rome, inevitable. So not giving her the tools is pretty useless, when she gave her the fighting skills and then took her into situations where she'd be forced to make harder and harder choices. And I'm not saying this to blame Xena. Gabrielle didn't want to be left out, and would have followed her if Xena had tried to leave her behind. I guess I'm just saying that not teaching her the pinch is both a useless symbolic gesture of preserving Gab's nonexistent innocence, and a demonstration that Xena doesn't trust Gabrielle's judgement of when to use it and when not to. I think.
ApollotheArcher		#15	[-]
Four Star General Posts: 4103 (07/19/09 9:34 PM) Hera's Enforcer Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Aresbitch wrote: I felt that bit about the pinch in FIN was a bit of retconn, a way of adding Akemi to the overall picture of the show - yet another reason to completely dislike FIN. It makes Akemi some sort of omnipiscent presence hanging over X&G. Only Gab isn't allowed to know that. Yeah that's what I thought too, but then again, there seem to be several retconn's in the series. This one is easy to ignore since it happened so late. I also agree with what Superficial said that Xena initially liked Gab because she didn't kill. That's why I liked Gab too, but that character was long dead. Incidentally, I don't think Gabrielle learned the pinch. She used it once, and probably never again so she likely forgot how to apply it. I don't think she would have wanted to use it given the Akemi taint. ~~~~~~~~~ I'm the King of Sweetness, my dear. --Hades to Persephone "Not Fade Away."
Xenasgrrl		#16	[-]
Olympian Posts: 9479 (07/19/09 10:33 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Oh I think Gabrielle used the pinch after Xena died. Mmmhmmm. ~Keepership and avatar by Sais08~~banner by TaladarkieJJ~ Userbar made by Leigh~thank you sweetie ~Whatever Leigh wants Leigh gets~ (unless I say no)
munnag		#17	[-]
Olympian Posts: 9553 (07/20/09 12:05 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	hmm..that was tough one..i ll read the rest reviews first..!! Shipper-Ares and Xena forever, Lone Warrior - Archer Thank you Aurora for Kepper
AmphipolisAngel		#18	[-]
Warrior Posts: 304 (07/20/09 12:28 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I'm agreeing with almost everything I'm reading here. There was no purpose for Gabrielle to know how to do the pinch throughout the series. If there had ever been a reason for her to know, Xena would have taught her before AFIN.
TheAmazon		#19	[-]
Warrior-in-Training Posts: 115 (07/20/09 2:08 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I agree that teaching it to gabrielle was like giving a person power over life and death (yes she can fight, but this is the pinch). It's a lot of power to handle, which would have changed gabrielle. She would use it when needed, people would come to fear her or be in awe of her power, and look to kill her to prove themselves (like people going after xena). It would change her life and change her. That and I thin xena had her reasons (like the above) for not teaching her, and gabrielle probably didn't necessarly want to know it. www.youtube.com/user/cheekybabe666
xenares		#20	[-]
Royal Posts: 3335 (07/20/09 7:34 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	TheAmazon wrote: It's a lot of power to handle, which would have changed gabrielle. She would use it when needed, people would come to fear her or be in awe of her power, and look to kill her to prove themselves (like people going after xena). It would change her life and change her. Hmm.. Gabrielle had already changed, especially after season 5. I believe she was a lethal weapon herself, like Aresbitch said, and people respected and perhaps feared her in battle just like they feared Xena. I think that Gabby was an almost equal match in the battlefield as Xena herself. If Gabrielle could decide consciously when to use the pinch and when not (and I believe she could do that), the pinch would just be one more way to protect herself, IMO, it would be like a ... safety measure for Gabrielle. thanks Mstrss and Aurora for the banner, the keeper and the avatar :) No Xena, No Xenaverse!

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