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Hope's Mother..!!

Author	Comment
Silverlight1		#21	[-]
Three Star General Posts: 3272 05/05/09 7:09 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Exactly! Gabs had to save her child. There was nothing else for her to do! This way, Hope was alive. To a parent there is no choice; you make sure your child survives, which is what makes Gabs poisoning Hope later so awful and such a powerful statement. Also, I think that Munnag's comparison between Gab's handling of the Hope situation and Xena's of the situation with Eve and the Furries possessed Gabs dissimilar. Xena was not only saving her daughter from Gabs but a being that was valuable to the future of humanity. Hope on the other hand, while she was Gab's daughter, was the demon child of an evil god. I hate to say that at the bottom line one was more......I don't want to say valuable but....well you get my idea, than the other, but compare messenger of God to demon child. The fact that Gabs did opt to send her daughter down the river rather than bend to pressure and allow Dahak's child to be killed, screams good Mother to me. Now, I don't necessarily think that Gabs was at that place when she sent Hope down the river. I think she was convinced that Hope could be saved and was focused only on saving her from Xena, so really I suppose that makes the argument moot from Gab's point of view. But from the pov of the audience, really, as I've said what other choice did Gabs have as a Mother?
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Sylvius Delmonte		#22	[-]
One Star General Posts: 1617 05/05/09 7:18 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Here we go again.... Okay, if "everybody" starts to argue here, I start too... Fact is: Gabrielle abandoned Hope. It was her decision and she is responsible for it. Because she is an adult. And Xena did not rip the child out of Gabrielle's arms to kill Hope, she tries to talk some sense into her (unfortunately successless). And about Callisto: normally she does not care for anybody else. I just meant, this scene in DAS GRÖSSTE OPFER/SACRIFICE I seems to be an exception. But we will never know...
munnag		#23	[-]
Olympian Posts: 11527 05/05/09 7:20 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Silverlight1 wrote: Exactly! Gabs had to save her child. There was nothing else for her to do! This way, Hope was alive. To a parent there is no choice; you make sure your child survives, which is what makes Gabs poisoning Hope later so awful and such a powerful statement. Also, I think that Munnag's comparison between Gab's handling of the Hope situation and Xena's of the situation with Eve and the Furries possessed Gabs dissimilar. Xena was not only saving her daughter from Gabs but a being that was valuable to the future of humanity. Hope on the other hand, while she was Gab's daughter, was the demon child of an evil god. I hate to say that at the bottom line one was more......I don't want to say valuable but....well you get my idea, than the other, but compare messenger of God to demon child. The fact that Gabs did opt to send her daughter down the river rather than bend to pressure and allow Dahak's child to be killed, screams good Mother to me. Now, I don't necessarily think that Gabs was at that place when she sent Hope down the river. I think she was convinced that Hope could be saved and was focused only on saving her from Xena, so really I suppose that makes the argument moot from Gab's point of view. But from the pov of the audience, really, as I've said what other choice did Gabs have as a Mother? I believe Gabbrialle do had a choice.. She would have run away with hope ( may be out of Greece), and start a new life with Hope, She should raise hope far from the all the greek gods and evils.. hope could have turned as Gabrialle's daughter than Dahak's evil daughter
Elysia.xenaville		#24	[-]
One Star General Posts: 1504 05/05/09 7:41 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Xena did not rip the child out of Gabrielle's arms to kill Hope, she tries to talk some sense into her (unfortunately successless). There was no indisputable proof that Hope was evil at that point, Gabrielle wanted proof before they did anything - If Hope hadn't been evil and Gabrielle had allowed Xena to kill her then what kind of mother would she have been? All Gabrielle saw was her daughter...an innocent child. Can you blame her for wanting to protect what she saw as not only an innocent baby but HER innocent baby. She knew Xena wouldn't stop and so she did the only thing she could do, sent her baby down the river and prayed that she would be alright. Last Edited By: Elysia 05/05/09 7:45 PM. Edited 1 times.
Xenasgrrl		#25	[-]
Olympian Posts: 16135 05/05/09 8:23 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Xena would have ripped the baby from Gabrielle's arms if she had had the chance. She didn't just try to "talk sense" into her- she was hunting her down! She was pursuing her "relentlessly" (as Gabrielle said), and on her way up the cliffs towards Gabrielle Xena was shouting "I'm coming Gabrielle! Where is it?" I'll say it one more time- Gabrielle did the ONLY thing she could have done. She didn't have wings or an invisibility cloak. She knows that when Xena wants to do something, Xena does it. Gabrielle had to save Hope the only way possible, and she was obviously anguished to do it, as we see later on in Maternal Insticts when she meets Hope again.
Aresbitch		#26	[-]
Four Star General Posts: 4081 05/05/09 9:15 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Sylvius Delmonte wrote: And Xena did not rip the child out of Gabrielle's arms to kill Hope, she tries to talk some sense into her (unfortunately successless). No, she didn't rip the baby from Gab's arms first, but imo, what she did attempt was a lot worse. She snuck up on a sleeping Gabrielle (holding Hope) and would have plunged a SWORD into the body of her baby if she hadn't woken up. I can't even think of how Xena would have made Gabrielle understand the rightness (in her view) of her actions if Gab had woken to a murdered baby in her arms.
TheEpTalk		#27	[-]
Commander Posts: 840 05/06/09 12:14 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Who could be a best mother for hope? since Gabrialle let her die.. I respectfully disagree Gabrielle "let her die" because the event was first, Gabrielle saved baby Hope knowing Xena was in persuit to kill the child not negotiate. Be that right or wrong of Gabrielle the answer was revealed in Hope's living led to Solan's death when Hope teamed up with Callisto. Gabrielle contends herself "if" she had only listened meaning to me Xena was right about the need to kill Hope because she was an evil vessel and needed to die and Gabrielle was wrong. But again, after Solan's death Gabrielle did not "let her die" instead killed Hope herself. i don't think she is the great mother for her I can't say if Gabrielle was a "great mother" or not because she never had a chance in Hades to be what I believe determines being a great mother. Afterall, Gabrielle had but a few hours experiencing a birth followed by an emotional belief she was a mother to a child when actually and sadly all Gabrielle was Dahak's convenient pawn to bring an evil vessel into the world, a most unfortunate situation for which I hold great sympathy for Gabrielle having suffered. Who else could be great mother to Hope!! Xena Gabrialle Alti Callisto Valesca Najara Ephiny I answered Alti because she and Hope shared similar evil skills. Alti would have known right off Hope was Dahak's evil vessel and such power was a threat not only to good but to anyone with power as herself just as Ares realized Dahak was a threat sending even the God of War to bargain with Dahak. Alti however, was not one to bargain and I could picture her wanting to defeat Dahak, gain any power she could from him and would never have allowed Hope's powers to develop that she would be a threat to her as well.
PhoenixB4U		#28	[-]
Commander Posts: 758 05/06/09 12:30 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hope was so evil, no one could have controlled her and been a good mother except Alti. That being said, with Alti as her mom Hope would have been 10x more evil!!!
Batrochides		#29	[-]
Warrior Posts: 468 05/06/09 1:09 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Gabrielle, thank you. I see Callisto as being no better a parent than Dahak himself was. Batrochides
princessah		#30	[-]
Two Star General Posts: 2947 05/06/09 4:13 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Other I dont think Hope deserved a mother. IMO she was a spawn of evil created solely to do evil.
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xenawp7706		#31	[-]
Olympian Posts: 19459 05/06/09 4:34 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hope was evil, because she was created by Dahak to bring evil into the world, and choose Gabrielle as her mother, because Gabrielle was an innocent. Dahak planned this all along. He knew that a person like Gabrielle would have protected a child, because Gabrielle is good. Gabrielle wouldn't have let Xena or someone else killing her child. Gabrielle had a maternal instinct in her to be protective and kind, what a better person to take care of a child that was going to bring darkness? I don't blame Gabrielle and I don't blame Xena either. The only one to blame here is Dahak, and his minion: Krafstar(such a bastard, sorry my french).
munnag		#32	[-]
Olympian Posts: 11527 05/06/09 7:45 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	xenawp7706 wrote: Hope was evil, because she was created by Dahak to bring evil into the world, and choose Gabrielle as her mother, because Gabrielle was an innocent. Dahak planned this all along. He knew that a person like Gabrielle would have protected a child, because Gabrielle is good. Gabrielle wouldn't have let Xena or someone else killing her child. Gabrielle had a maternal instinct in her to be protective and kind, what a better person to take care of a child that was going to bring darkness? I don't blame Gabrielle and I don't blame Xena either. The only one to blame here is Dahak, and his minion: Krafstar(such a bastard, sorry my french). True and Agreed...but i think it is off the topic... the question is who could be a better mother to Hope?
Sylvius Delmonte		#33	[-]
One Star General Posts: 1617 05/06/09 8:21 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Elysia wrote: Xena did not rip the child out of Gabrielle's arms to kill Hope, she tries to talk some sense into her (unfortunately successless). There was no indisputable proof that Hope was evil at that point, Gabrielle wanted proof before they did anything - If Hope hadn't been evil and Gabrielle had allowed Xena to kill her then what kind of mother would she have been? All Gabrielle saw was her daughter...an innocent child. Can you blame her for wanting to protect what she saw as not only an innocent baby but HER innocent baby. She knew Xena wouldn't stop and so she did the only thing she could do, sent her baby down the river and prayed that she would be alright. An interesting point, Elysia. I just think: Gabrielle could not be sure that Hope is NOT evil, either. she jsut was not careful enough. I had liked to see her try to protect her daughter from Dahak's bad influence either. That had meant to stand up against Xena saying something like: "Hope is my daughter, and I will raise her. Deal with it!" Without doubt Xena had not liked it, but she had never dared to kill Gabrielle's child after this ("Gabrielle always gets what she wants.") Xena was following her to talk to her, not to ruthlessly kill the child. This chance she already had in the castle, when she had raised her sword and (unfortunately) Gabrielle woke up: the Warrior Princess tried to discuss whith Gabrielle ; in the same time she had easily run Hope through. She did not. By the way: it seems, as if Hope must have had a sort of step-mother. Somebody must have found the child in the basket and raised her till she was several months old. Perhaps this was the mother (or father) we are looking for? And somebody must have brought her to Greece. But who?
munnag		#34	[-]
Olympian Posts: 11527 05/06/09 8:26 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Sylvius Delmonte wrote: Elysia wrote: Xena did not rip the child out of Gabrielle's arms to kill Hope, she tries to talk some sense into her (unfortunately successless). There was no indisputable proof that Hope was evil at that point, Gabrielle wanted proof before they did anything - If Hope hadn't been evil and Gabrielle had allowed Xena to kill her then what kind of mother would she have been? All Gabrielle saw was her daughter...an innocent child. Can you blame her for wanting to protect what she saw as not only an innocent baby but HER innocent baby. She knew Xena wouldn't stop and so she did the only thing she could do, sent her baby down the river and prayed that she would be alright. An interesting point, Elysia. I just think: Gabrielle could not be sure that Hope is NOT evil, either. she jsut was not careful enough. I had liked to see her try to protect her daughter from Dahak's bad influence either. That had meant to stand up against Xena saying something like: "Hope is my daughter, and I will raise her. Deal with it!" Without doubt Xena had not liked it, but she had never dared to kill Gabrielle's child after this ("Gabrielle always gets what she wants.") Xena was following her to talk to her, not to ruthlessly kill the child. This chance she already had in the castle, when she had raised her sword and (unfortunately) Gabrielle woke up: the Warrior Princess tried to discuss whith Gabrielle ; in the same time she had easily run Hope through. She did not. By the way: it seems, as if Hope must have had a sort of step-mother. Somebody must have found the child in the basket and raised her till she was several months old. Perhaps this was the mother (or father) we are looking for? And somebody must have brought her to Greece. But who? Sylvius.. .Well said.. that was point too..!! Gabrielle should have stand up against xena and raised hope by herself though hope is evil.. Hope is half daughter of mortal too.. She would have turned her good rather than evil..!!
TaladarkieJJ		#35	[-]
One Star General Posts: 1955 05/06/09 10:26 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Gabrielle. She really loved her daughter inspite of everything. But Hope was a hopeless (lol) case. She was evil. There's no way around it. With Xena's daughter, Livia, later on Eve, it was different. She managed to turn her life around and leave her evil ways be. That would never have happened with Hope. Even Gabrielle knew that, but she kept on loving her anyways.
Xenasgrrl		#36	[-]
Olympian Posts: 16135 05/06/09 1:54 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	if Xena just wanted to talk to her, why would Gabrielle be running away from her like she was terrified for her daughters life? um...because she was! Xena was going to kill Hope regardless of what Gabrielle said to her. Contrary to the quote about Gabrielle always getting what she wants, we know this is not true. Xena left Gabrielle in the Debt to go kill Ming Tien even though Gabrielle didn't want her to go. There are many examples of Xena doing what she felt was the right thing, even though Gabrielle objected to it. And if Xena felt that Hope was a threat to the world, she was going to find a way to kill her, and Gabrielle knew this full well. I don't think there was any implication that Xena was just trying to talk to Gabrielle. She was determined to kill Hope, and that is why she was hunting Gabrille down relentlessly. Not to have some girl talk. Last Edited By: Xenasgrrl 05/06/09 2:09 PM. Edited 1 times.
JustSayNoToNutbread		#37	[-]
Administrator Moderator Royal Posts: 5757 05/06/09 2:05 PM Official Confiscator of Illicit Bakery Goods Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	ladyrazeli wrote: And its Gabrielle not Gabrialle. What she said.
Sylvius Delmonte		#38	[-]
One Star General Posts: 1617 05/06/09 3:13 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Xenasgrrl wrote: if Xena just wanted to talk to her, why would Gabrielle be running away from her like she was terrified for her daughters life? um...because she was! Xena was going to kill Hope regardless of what Gabrielle said to her. Contrary to the quote about Gabrielle always getting what she wants, we know this is not true. Xena left Gabrielle in the Debt to go kill Ming Tien even though Gabrielle didn't want her to go. There are many examples of Xena doing what she felt was the right thing, even though Gabrielle objected to it. And if Xena felt that Hope was a threat to the world, she was going to find a way to kill her, and Gabrielle knew this full well. I don't think there was any implication that Xena was just trying to talk to Gabrielle. She was determined to kill Hope, and that is why she was hunting Gabrille down relentlessly. Not to have some girl talk. Well, since You ask me... Gabrielle had not reason to be terrified. She reacted just narrow-minded--as if Xena was a munster, not her best friend. No way, Xena had killed Hope, if Gabrielle had definitely forbidden it. I already said it: Xena tries to argue with Gabrielle, not to rip the child off her arms (although her reaction indeed is a bit surprising, I admit that). And, with all due respect, THE DEBT really is not that much of a good example. Gabrielle's reaction to Xena's departure is hatching a plot with Ares, deliver Xena to a dictator who wants to murder her and beat her before him. I was really appalled how low Gabrielle, the "purest thing in my life" (Xena in ALS DIE GÖTTER STARBEN/MOTHERHOOD) and the "most loyal friend ever" (Beowulf in DIE RÜCKKEHR DER WALKÜRE/RETURN OF THE VALKYRE) could step.
Xenasgrrl		#39	[-]
Olympian Posts: 16135 05/06/09 3:29 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I totally disagree. Gabrielle wouldn't have sent Hope down a river in a basket if Xena was just coming to talk to her. And as Xena had already tried to stab Hope while Gabrielle was asleep, I think she had a pretty good idea of what Xena wanted to do with the baby. And as for the Debt, I won't respond as it is totally off topic.
Sylvius Delmonte		#40	[-]
One Star General Posts: 1617 05/06/09 4:10 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Well, I agree about the fact that Gabrielle did not trust Xena here. But I see no reason for this reaction. I wonder why Xena did not do her flip over Gabrielle's head and then gripping whatever she was holding (it was not Hope anymore) and then raise the sword...Wow, that had been a dramatic end for this episode!! But the question still remains unanswered: who found Hope and raised her?
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