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Najara's Light: Good for Gab?

Author	Comment
athenasword		#21	[-]
Warrior Posts: 263 (05/21/08 9:21 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I wondered why Najara only advocated travelling with warriors and giving them that ultimatum. Somehow I wonder if there's a subliminal desire in her to make sure that she is lauded as the greatest warrior and champion for goodness and anyone attached to her must defer authority to her. Anyone who challenges her position is considered Dark and worthy of elimination. Najara could have used a scare tactic as a last option to ensure that literally no one would be better than her; her sacred obligation would be unquestioned, and meantime innocent villagers, who would accept the Light unconditionally for the sanctity and protection by Najara that it gives them, wouldn't perceive the power she has over her men. An army of the light through awe and fear. Oath on Her Sword - Trust in Her Word
LadyKate63		#22	[-]
Administrator Moderator Olympian Posts: 78314 (05/22/08 1:56 AM) Xena Studies Ph.D. Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Well, not just any warriors though. Only baddies. IMO it's to Najara's credit that she only seeks to forcibly convert those who, left to their own devices, do bad things and harm innocent people. She doesn't even, as far as we can see, try to pressure the villagers she liberates from warlords and slavers to convert to her faith -- and she could have easily done that, given that they they were not only immensely grateful to her but also in awe of her. "They have this love/hate, lust/hate relationship." -- Lucy Lawless See my artwork and fanfiction at The Muse's Corner * Visit Xena Online Community Keepership and sig script by Nutty, Avatars by Cila
TheEpTalk		#23	[-]
Commander Posts: 779 (05/22/08 2:16 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	How did she know about Gabrielle and Xena's past just by looking at them? I believe Najara was skillful like a fortune teller who reads people, facial expressions, body language, appearance-the whole shebang. Then she cleverly makes general statements followed by questions prompting responses that feed her more information. Fortune tellers do the same thing making you think they know things they don't really know but can sound precise and accurate. Najara's comments are followed by a question and she thus it projects she has special insight (I didn't buy it). Najara claimed D'Jinnn told her things while cleverly admitting they didn't tell her detail even sometimes saying D'Jinn weren't with her , conveniently. . Oh yes, she was good....but miraculous foresight, I don't think so. As for Najara's first insight of course a warrior would have a past -skilled warrior's don't bloom overnight. Xena's leather costume was a big clue of darkness while in contrast here's Gabrielle, a young clearly inexperienced innocent young companion who doesn't fight with a lethal weapon and voila Najara comments generally about Gabrielle being "pure of heart" (not rocket science, but cleverly applied). Observing X&G are traveling together wasn't really that insightful either when Najara says, "they're on a journey--a quest" yet like a fortune teller she speaks in general statements creating an appearance D'Jinn informed her of things. How did she know about Xena's vision without Xena saying a word? Again Najara makes a very general statement "it's a curse to have seen one's own death" quickly explaining D'Jinn didn't tell her everything. Xena's face, her body language many factors cue Najara Xena feels, experiences something very uncomfortable. She throws out a very general statement applicable even common a warrior whose in many battles would grimace at seeing or thinking about their own death. She skillfully followed up her general statement with a question "your vision of death, does it ?" which Xena realizes she's asking if Xena sees Gabrielle's death too learning Xena fears Gabrielle being killed while traveling with her, not her own death. Najara cleverly uses that to tell Xena, ".it will take drastic measures --to change an event." Oh yes ---Najara was skillful setting up the thought Xena to leave Gabrielle -very clever of Najara because there wasn't anything anymore drastic than Xena to leave Gabrielle, them to split up. Skillful fortune tellers and the like tell people what they want to hear but I didn't believe it was miraculouos foresight on Najara's part no more than I believe in the accuracy of reading tea leaves in a cup. I think it's important to remember that the captives subject to her "convert or die" policy were members of warlord armies and slaver or pirate gangs, usually captured in the act of committing crimes so the risk of error was pretty low. The only one's Najara claims to have killed are warlords, slave traders etc (not sure I believe her completely on that either) because Gabrielle points out about Najara's method "innocent people could die" and Najara admits she's made mistakes. Even worse, Najara believes the light will correct her mistakes. (Nuts ....the woman is nuts !) She doesn't even refer to her slicing throats (per Marat) as killing instead professes she simply sends them into the light. I call all of that crazy and put in contrast to Xena killing for good, Najara hides behind a false preacher persona, hears voices in her head since childhood, claims to have spiritual guides D'Jinn and believes people evil or innocent if she kills them they're just sent into some ill-defined "light" who will correct what she's done if it was a mistake. Also I would note Najara's men would have if they could have killed Xena and Gabrielle, ooops. They attacked them only on the basis they thought they were headed to Zoras assuming without any reason X&G were working with Marat. Made me wonder how many along the way did they attack who fought in defense and were killed just because they came upon them. Najara would simply shrug anyone her men killed as being sent into the light making it seem to me, Najara was a leader of a band of cut-throats not just organized crime fighters. (In other words -if they mistakingly attacked X&G --I just don't think this was the first and only attack of innocents by Najara or her men). Last Edited By: TheEpTalk 05/22/08 2:21 AM. Edited 1 times.
athenasword		#24	[-]
Warrior Posts: 265 (05/22/08 2:44 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	How is Xena's leather costume a clue of darkness? Herc and Iolaus wear dark leather pants but they're not bad guys. If clothing colour were an indicator of mindset then Virgil is the son of Satan. Which makes Joxer... Najara as a cold reader doesn't work for me. How could you generalize "seeing your own death?" Further, Najara was the first person to mention the word "vision," while externally, Xena was just standing there looking pensive as she always does. How did she know Xena was thinking about a vision of the future at that moment? That was a very specific noun that doesn't bely cold reading, and it wasn't general enough to be a common thought Xena was turning over in her head. If it was, then she's incredibly lucky to hit the mark on the first guess that it was a vision. "Heading to Zoras" could equally mean they were going to see Marat, in Dakh's mind anyway. They were dressed like warriors and armed, and since Zoras is a typical-Xena peaceful village of peasants dressed in rags, it could be easy for Dakh to assume they were going there on behalf of Marat. But I agree, as Najara does, that she probably assumed one too many times that innocent people were worthy of the Darkness, and in her twisted logic her mistakes would be corrected anyway. Najara's greatest flaw is that she assumes no responsibility for the consequences of her actions; The Light takes care of everything. Oath on Her Sword - Trust in Her Word Last Edited By: athenasword 05/22/08 2:48 AM. Edited 2 times.
LadyKate63		#25	[-]
Administrator Moderator Olympian Posts: 78322 (05/22/08 5:23 AM) Xena Studies Ph.D. Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	EpTalk, the trouble I'm having here is that you seem to be simultaneously saying that Najara is deliberately lying when she says her information about certain things comes from the Djinn, and that she really does hear "voices in her head," believes the Djinn to be real, and obeys their commands with insane zeal. I think the combination of both -- religious huckster who cleverly uses her people-reading skills to get people to believe her mumbo-jumbo and follow her, and insane zealot who believes her own hallucinations -- is very unlikely. Even worse, Najara believes the light will correct her mistakes. (Nuts ....the woman is nuts !) Actually, I don't think this attitude is "nuts" at all. It's a mindset common to both religious and ideological fanatics. Is it bad, yes. Dangerous, yes. But I think that to write it off as "nuts" is actually to underestimate its danger, because then it's not a problem for those of who are sane. In fact, over ages of history, a lot of people who were in no sense frothing-at-the-mouth maniacs succumbed to the temptation of such beliefs. I suspect that Najara's words here are reworked from a historical incident. In the 13th Century the Catholic Church declared a crusade on the Cathars, a heretical sect which had acquired major influence in the South of France. When the crusaders were laying siege to the city of Beziers, the Cathar stronghold, one of their commanders -- who was also an abbot -- was reportedly asked by an officer how to tell the heretics from the faithful Catholics once the city was taken. His response was, "Kill them all; the Lord will know his own." (This is sometimes rendered as, "Kill them all; God will sort them out.") In the 18th Century the leaders of the French Revolution unleashed a reign of terror against the presumed enemies of the revolution, openly arguing that if some innocent people were killed along with the guilty that was a worthy sacrifice for the sake of achieving the reign of Reason and virtue. (Interestingly, the jurors on the French Revolutionary Tribunal which judged suspected counterrevolutionaries were instucted that they could use their "inner conviction" to establish a defendant's guilt, regardless of the evidence -- which is rather similar to Najara judging the sincerity of someone's conversion.) 20th Century revolutionaries in places like Russia believed the same thing, and they didn't even have the excuse of saying that God would correct their mistakes since they were atheists and didn't believe it the afterlife -- they just argued that the happiness of the people was worth the sacrifice of a few individuals who might be innocent. I'll add that just three years ago, a prominent conservative jurist in America said that religious people are more likely than the non-religious to support the death penalty because to religious people who believe in eternal life, "death is no big deal" and even if an innocent person is executed by mistake, he or she is simply going to God. (And he made it pretty clear that he himself shares this attitude.) I'm not going in to any further detail because I really do not want this thread to veer off into a political or religious argument (and I want to make it clear that I'm not slamming any religion here -- all beliefs have their extremists). I just want to point out that this attitude, while (to me) rather scary, has been shared by quite a few non-insane people. Mind you -- I am not saying that Najara is "good" or right. I'm saying that I think she is partly right and has some valid arguments on her side. To me, it makes her a far more interesting (and ultimately more dangerous!) character if she is intelligent and gifted, has some genuine insights (whether they come from spirits or psychic powers), is sincere in her desire to fight for good, and offers an attractive (but fatally flawed) philosophy, than if she's simply a nutcase (and/or a manipulative con woman). "They have this love/hate, lust/hate relationship." -- Lucy Lawless See my artwork and fanfiction at The Muse's Corner * Visit Xena Online Community Keepership and sig script by Nutty, Avatars by Cila
Pandora10		#26	[-]
Two Star General Posts: 2085 (07/06/75 3:11 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I got the impression that the Djinn were real. Whether they were good or bad is another matter, but I didn't see any reason to think Najara would make them up, or that she was hearing voices (in the sense of being mad). Especially her knowledge of the vision. (Although if I was looking for a way to explain how Najara could know the things she said about Xena and Gabrielle the first time she met them, I'd have thought it was easier to just assume she'd heard about Xena - Xena was pretty famous after all - rather than supposing she was getting clues from Xena's armour of Gabrielle's non-lethal weapon). Last Edited By: Pandora10 05/22/08 12:08 PM. Edited 1 times.
athenasword		#27	[-]
Warrior Posts: 270 (05/22/08 1:34 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Well for me the line that set the insanity scale off in Convert was "Tell me you heard them! Don't say you didn't! The Djinn get mad when you say that!" It's one of those simplistic childish-sounding lines that comes off like your 3-year old's invisible friend at the stuffed animal tea party. Maybe the way she spoke that line was just her being excited or frantic beyond articulation in the heat of the moment. I didn't like how they added audible whispering in the air that was absent in Crusader. I took that as a sign that you were supposed to think she was hearing crazy voices, much like Caligula in God You Know, or anytime the Furies hovered nearby to drive Gabrielle mad. But I guess that's still open to interpretation if those whispers were real spirits. Maybe The Convert really did preserve the ambiguity after all, in which case I could forgive it a little. Oath on Her Sword - Trust in Her Word
LadyKate63		#28	[-]
Administrator Moderator Olympian Posts: 78334 (05/22/08 2:59 PM) Xena Studies Ph.D. Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	"Tell me you heard them! Don't say you didn't! The Djinn get mad when you say that!" Oh, yeah. One of the worst lines ever in the 6 years of the show. (No offense to Chris Manheim, who is a wonderful writer.) I do think the scene was clearly meant to show Najara as "nuts." Not just that line and the voices whispering in the air, but also the way she listens to those voices with a kind of vacant open-mouthed look (totally different from the focused but serene expression we saw in Crusader), and even the weird angles at which her face was shot to make it look distorted. (They did the same thing in Ares' mad scenes in Coming Home, btw, and I didn't care for that either.) Were the Djinn real? Hmm... I'd say it's ambiguous. Either they're real, or she has some psychic powers, because it seems quite a stretch to me that she could see the look on Xena's face and make the deduction or super-lucky guess that she has had a vision of her own death. I think they missed some great opportunities by having Najara freak out like that. If they really wanted to continue the theme of the dangers of zealotry, they could have shown Najara taking her pacifism to excesses that were as dangerous as her earlier killing habit. For instance, some innocent person could have gotten killed because she stopped Gabrielle from joining the fight (Armon, maybe? it's not like he was worth saving for the insipid romance with Amarice in Animal Attraction...), and they could have had Najara serenely say that his death was worth it because Gabrielle jeopardizing her commitment to the Way of Love was too big a risk to take even to save this person's life. She could have even fallen back on the whole "he went to the Light, what's the big deal" thing. And then I could see Gabrielle just giving her an appalled look and shaking her head. And then saying something to Xena at the end like, "You were right -- she hasn't changed." "They have this love/hate, lust/hate relationship." -- Lucy Lawless See my artwork and fanfiction at The Muse's Corner * Visit Xena Online Community Keepership and sig script by Nutty, Avatars by Cila
athenasword		#29	[-]
Warrior Posts: 271 (05/22/08 3:20 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Grraaaarrrgh! So many possibilities that could've made Convert so much better! I do offer offense to Chris Manheim for this; it was the bastardization of the character's mystery that led her to such an abrupt end as unworthy as the threadlike endings of Mavican dangling in the other universe or Satrina "probably" surviving the cave-in. I'm not overshadowing all of her work because of this; she's made some excellent episodes. But no other secondary character's fate left me more frustrated at the end of the series, and it leaves a really bitter taste for me. But that said, how could Najara have been revived in Season 5 or 6, with Gab's feet unwaveringly planted on her path? Would she have been able to make any dent in Gab's resolve a third time, or reduced to psychotic paper cutout villain? What if she had really advocated Eve as the Child of the Light and worked toward her preservation from the gods? That seems to me the only way she might redeem herself in Xena's eyes, and the redemption would be marginal at best; Xena wouldn't forgive her that easily. What of the Djinn emerging as real spirits opposing the Greek gods? That would really mark up a notch for Xena, but dissolve Najara's ambiguity. Oath on Her Sword - Trust in Her Word
LadyKate63		#30	[-]
Administrator Moderator Olympian Posts: 78337 (05/22/08 3:35 PM) Xena Studies Ph.D. Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Wow, Najara coming back as an ally to Xena and Gabrielle against the gods could have been a fascinating twist! "They have this love/hate, lust/hate relationship." -- Lucy Lawless See my artwork and fanfiction at The Muse's Corner * Visit Xena Online Community Keepership and sig script by Nutty, Avatars by Cila

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