athenasword said:
She's a fruit and a vegetable.
OMG!!!!!!!!!
You have a way with words.

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LadyKate63 |
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OMG!!!!!!!!! You have a way with words.
"They have this love/hate, lust/hate relationship." -- Lucy Lawless
See my artwork and fanfiction at The Muse's Corner * Visit Xena Online Community Keepership and sig script by Nutty, Avatars by Cila |
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athenasword |
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Athena advocates eloquence
Oath on Her Sword - Trust in Her Word
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Daughter of Tiaran |
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As someone who's put a bit of time into puzzling out Najara's character, athenasword, I basically agree with everything you said in your previous post. In fact, it's the *lack* of zealotry that I see in Najara (at least, in Crusader)that makes her so disturbing--I'd find her *less* disturbing if she were a more overtly ranting, raving, delusional freak.
"Sometimes a thing gets broke, can't be fixed."
--Kaylee, Firefly
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athenasword |
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Even more amazing was her complete lack of zealotry towards someone like Xena, which I imagine pissed the WP off to no end. Right up until Xena told Gab to
come back with her, Najara was all smiles. Only when Xena demands Gabrielle back does Najara declare her Darkness to be destroyed. I'm sure Najara
appreciates Xena's efforts; they made uneasy comrades despite Gab in the middle. And even while Xena rolled her eyes at Najara's preaching and singing,
she kept her mouth shut around Gabrielle's shining eyes.
Najara never once questioned Xena's past, or why the vision might come to pass. She never compared the pirates and slavers to what Xena had been before. In fact the only bitter words she had for her were after she was arrested. Everything about the risk of hurting Gabrielle was freely admitted by Xena when she left Gab with Najara that night. Najara only threw those words back at Xena when she didn't get her way (or Way. Oooooh). That's why I still think The Light philosophy could have worked for Gabrielle, just focusing on Xena instead of Najara. When Gab and Xena look at Najara, they don't see the Light and goodness, they see its messenger, an attractive woman who threatens the bond they share. I wish one could have looked at the other at the end and declared "You are my Light. You're the one worth upholding and protecting. I stand and fall with you," etc etc. Najara wouldn't have stood a second thought against that. And that could certainly drive her crazy to be even more obsessive toward Gab as she was in Convert. Not only did she desire Gab, she became Gab, or claimed she did (I think the Eli bit was bull). A much better reason for her psychosis, and reason to bring her back in future episodes.
Oath on Her Sword - Trust in Her Word
Last Edited By: athenasword
05/21/08 12:22 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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TheEpTalk |
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Najara was part nutcase and part false prophet. She used the term "the light" conveniently as a false means including threatening her captives to
join the light (meaning to join her army under her control) or be executed. Her own men I suspect were slaves of her light likely joined after they were given
3 days to join else be killed. That's no kind of light I'd advocate for Gabrielle or anyone else.
I believe Gabrielle only agreed to be initiated into "the light" because she was impressed how content, seeming at peace Najara was with her life in comparison to Xena who was never content or at peace with herself and the fact Gabrielle was seriously questioning her own path in life due to violence. The so-called light did not mean anything much to Gabrielle because she completely forgot about it soon as Najara was found to be an executioner. That says a lot about Najara's light had no meaning, substance or solution emotionally, spiritually or otherwise. So to answer was Najara's light good for Gab ? Consider what the heck really was Najara's light ? which to me was Najara's rule, a false meaning with ceremony that actually meant being under Najara's crazed control - No thankyou ! Najara claimed Gabrielle was her responsibility because she joined, "No ! Gabrielle has turned to the light. She's my responsibility now" (join the light and you're hers !) --thats evidence to me it wasn't a good thing but a manipulative expression with a ceremony Najara used to sucker in either captives fearful for their life or in Gabrielle's case the naive and confused. She didn't have Gabrielle's best interest at heart especiallly Gabrielle's spiritual well-being. The light Najara offered was a selfish desire to acquire Gabrielle for herself, a trophy basically which meant also she conquered Xena. She couldn't defeat Xena since they were quite equal in fighting skills but she could take away that which meant the most to Xena, ala Gabrielle. Najara's selfish motive was quite clear made me believe Najara's light like atypical Najara wasn't a good thing instead a self-serving bad thing
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xenawp7706 |
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Well said
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No Xena, No Xenaverse
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athenasword |
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I agree with everything you said except the false prophet bit. In Crusader, there was no telling what was powering Najara's insight. How did she know about
Gabrielle and Xena's past just by looking at them? How did she know about Xena's vision without Xena saying a word? She purposely lies within that
ambiguity to make it seem like she has been gifted, and even in Convert after she was revealed insane there was still no explanation of her miraculous
foresight.
I've also already stated that Najara's opinions are flawed, her agenda is bigger than her motives, and her ability to mesmerize almost anybody to join her cause is amazing and atrocious. Gab was probably her greatest trophy, but you could also interpret that Najara wanted to hold her up as a symbol of the Light's goodness working at its purest. To some extent Najara did have good intentions, otherwise she wouldn't have advocated anti-slavery or a hospice in the first place. And for a commoner who wouldn't travel with her, the Light is an uplifting thing. The point of this post was to find a lasting spirituality that Gab can continue on her path with Xena, because it once again highlighted a frustrating naivete of hers. Every time Gab has been attracted to a new shiny spiritual path, she joins without thinking, without questioning, without breaking down her mentor using the healthy skepticism Xena has espoused. And every time the mentor has turned out to be something else, or had motives Gab disagrees with, she leaves probably even more frustrated that she was suckered again. And Xena probably gritted her teeth every time thinking "Here we go again." In the case of Eli, where the mentor genuinely had the world's interests at heart (and not exclusively Gab's), Xena suffered for it and Gab was forced to react or watch her friend die. In other words, it took immense pain and suffering on someone's part through every one of Gab's spiritual explorations for her to find that Xena was her object of devotion. Every one of her former mentors also ended up dead or incapacitated, though you might argue that Eli's death strengthened his cause. But Gabrielle has a problem that she can't have a spirituality or religion without that mentor figure constantly reassuring her of her goodness and deeds. I reiterate that's why The Light seems simple enough that Gab could take it for herself and redefine it away from Najara's cruel ethics and apply it to the typical lifestyle she and Xena live. It's spiritual, moral, and practical, in line with everything that Gab and to an extent Xena, stand for. Moreover, it proves her inner strength that she mustn't rely on a body to ensure that she's doing the right thing. Under her advocacy people could follow The Light as they chose without fear of penalty, no one would have to travel with her and be a burden on her or Xena, her relationship with Xena would not be compromised, she could uphold the same ethics she had all along, and she could still be a warrior. But Xena and Gab in the end were extremely mistrusting of any spirituality, only placing faith in humans and in each other. I don't consider the "Way of Friendship" to be a spirituality or religion in the same way that Eli and Dahak were. It's a title Gab made up on the spot to define that bond she and Xena share and that vocally sways her purpose off the Way of Love to fight to protect Xena.
Oath on Her Sword - Trust in Her Word
Last Edited By: athenasword
05/21/08 8:33 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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Pandora10 |
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I agree that Najara's character took a sudden change of direction when she was just written off as mad in a way that wasn't implied in Crusader (and
that her Light and philosophy were so assoctiated with her that they were discarded too). Prior to that, I think part of the point of Najara was to
deliberately show that there was some sense in a lot of what she said, and a lot of good intentions, in order to have Gabrielle, Xena, and us cast even more
doubt on whether Xena's way really was morally superior. Najara's speech about Xena only killing in defense, and herself only killing evil people, and
questioning why one was so much more ok, basically sums up this point. I don't think it was shown that Najara was essentially wrong while Xena's way
was right - Najara's way was just putting the ethics of Xena and Gabrielle's current (or previous in Gabrielle's case) lives into even more
confusion. Then Najara's systematic killing of those who didn't convert was something that appeared more concrete, that Xena and Gabrielle could
easily see as wrong, but I don't think that was the primary reason why Gabrielle then immediately discarded everything Najara had stood for.
Athenasword mentioned that; Gabrielle has a problem that she can't have a spirituality or religion without that mentor figure constantly reassuring her of her goodness and deeds. I reiterate that's why The Light seems simple enough that Gab could take it for herself and redefine it away from Najara's cruel ethics and apply it to the typical lifestyle she and Xena live. I agree that Gabrielle was looking for a mentor figure - but actually I think that's exactly why Gabrielle couldn't then take the Light and redefine it. Gabrielle was spiritually lost - she was looking for someone to tell her what was right. Not only was Najara herself appealing because she would do that for Gabrielle, but I think Gabrielle was also very taken with the Djinn. She wanted to be told what was right and what was wrong - she wanted someone/thing to be dependent on that would tell her what to do so she didn't have to worry about making the wrong decision anymore (I think this all goes back to her decisions over Hope, her decisions in WIR, in The Debts, etc.). So to take the principles but not the metor or the spiritual guides who could spell out what to do - when to fight - in black and white was not something that Gabrielle thought would help her. So instead Gabrielle turns to Eli and others. She didn't think Xena could be her mentor anymore since at this point it was Xena's darkside that Gabrielle was trying to find an alternative for. But ultimately Gabrielle comes to realise that it is Xena who she has to follow, and that that is right for her even if it isn't going to give her the consistent clear moral guidance she'd like (and that's probably not even possible in practice anyway). I don't consider the "Way of Friendship" to be a spirituality or religion in the same way that Eli and Dahak were. It's a title Gab made up on the spot to define that bond she and Xena share and that vocally sways her purpose off the Way of Love to fight to protect Xena.I'd actually disagree with some of this I think - since Gabrielle was thinking in "Ways" at that point - so it's religious or a spirituality in that it's still following the Ways they learned about in India. Possibly the actual way of "friendship" was just what Gabrielle thought sounded right at that moment - but I think the commitment behind it - that her friendship with Xena and their mission together were the path she was meant to follow - amounts to spiritual path in the same way that the other "Ways" were, especially since Gabrielle was essentially saying that choosing the Way Of Friendship meant she was necessarily not going to follow any other religion.
Last Edited By: Pandora10
05/21/08 12:10 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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athenasword |
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Oh sorry yeah that's what I meant. The words "Way of Friendship" were just something she made on the spot to compare it to what she had followed
before, but the purpose of it transcends spirituality or religion. Gab wasn't suckered again after she made this choice; she deliberately put her search
behind her and found comfort, strength, and duty in something that went beyond her old perception of "spirituality." The bond they share is akin to a
spiritual path, but not one directly.
That was one of the problems I had with The Way. You can attach pretty much any noun to The Way and it becomes one. Obedience, Love, Friendship, Honesty, Honour, until you're attaching Final Fantasy character classes and you have the Way of the Warrior, the Bard, and the Mage. I wasn't comfortable with it being so abstract yet so engrossing to everything the characters stood for. You could basically say prior to this Gab had been on the Way of the Bard, or the Way of Loyalty, and Najara on the Way of the Light, even though they didn't acknowledge it as one of the Indian Ways. What you pointed out though is one of the reasons why I doubt a character like Najara would have worked as a mesmerizer if she were brought in during Season 5 and 6. By that time Gab's purpose was solidified and there was no way in hell she was going to deviate from it, and she'd probably declare Najara a wacko right off the bat. But she's such a chameleon and burrows deep into the ethics Xena and Gab live by that I wish they'd squeezed out at least one more ep where she really tried to convince Gab one last time, or even found redemption and become a temporary ally. *wriggle* I love Najara. And all this complexity from just 1.5 episodes.
Oath on Her Sword - Trust in Her Word
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LadyKate63 |
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Gabrielle was spiritually lost - she was looking for someone to tell her what was right. Not only was Najara herself appealing because she would do that for Gabrielle, but I think Gabrielle was also very taken with the Djinn. She wanted to be told what was right and what was wrong - she wanted someone/thing to be dependent on that would tell her what to do so she didn't have to worry about making the wrong decision anymore (I think this all goes back to her decisions over Hope, her decisions in WIR, in The Debts, etc.). So to take the principles but not the metor or the spiritual guides who could spell out what to do - when to fight - in black and white was not something that Gabrielle thought would help her. So instead Gabrielle turns to Eli and others. She didn't think Xena could be her mentor anymore since at this point it was Xena's darkside that Gabrielle was trying to find an alternative for. I think that's very true (and also that yours and athenasword's analysis of the Way of Friendship is spot-on. I wonder though -- does the WoF mean that Gabrielle pretty much settles into letting Xena tell her what to do? Re Najara, in response to EpTalk's post: I think it's important to remember that the captives subject to her "convert or die" policy were members of warlord armies and slaver or pirate gangs, usually captured in the act of committing crimes so the risk of error was pretty low. They were people whom many governments would put to death without any kind of second chance. Actually here's an interesting question: what if Najara did not force them to convert to her faith, but instead made them pledge to abstain from further crimes and required that they stay with her group and work for the Greater Good in one capacity or another for some probationary period, then reserved the right to hunt them down and kill them if they ever went back to wrongdoing? Would her actions be judged as harshly?
"They have this love/hate, lust/hate relationship." -- Lucy Lawless
See my artwork and fanfiction at The Muse's Corner * Visit Xena Online Community Keepership and sig script by Nutty, Avatars by Cila |
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