Yuku free message boards

Unfortunately all the research on guns and gun use is surrounded by so much politics on both sides that it's very difficult to get at the facts.

It's easy to look at the comparative violent crime/murder rates in Sweden (where Jinxy lives) and in the US and say "aha, a total ban on guns makes you safer." However, in Switzerland gun ownership is actually mandatory for every household (a law left over from the times when every able-bodied male was supposed to be a member of the civil defense militia) and all children receive firearm training from an early age. And crime is extremely low (about the same as in Sweden). In Israel, because military service is so common for both men and women, very large numbers of people own and/or carry firearms and the crime rate is also extremely low.

I don't think cases in which an attacker grabs a gun from a person trying to defend themselves are really all that common. Honestly not a whole lot of people are going to try to disarm a person pointing a gun at them. Yeah, I know there are studies supposedly showing that a gun owner is more likely to be shot with his/her own gun than to shoot someone in self-defense. The problem is that some of those studies actually include suicide as "being shot with your own gun." Also, a large number of those shootings are domestic incidents and in some of them an abusive spouse/partner who is the legal owner of the gun is shot in self-defense by the victim. Also, once again -- these comparisons don't include a very large number of incidents in which people use a gun in self-defense without actually firing it.

As some people in this thread have said, I don't think any gun laws are going to get rid of guns completely. We have harsh anti-drug laws in the US and have had a "War on Drugs" going on for nearly 20 years that has resulted in large numbers of people being jailed. And still basically just about anyone who wants to get their hands on drugs can get them. So... we're really not very good at keeping illegal substances out of people's hands. I think all that's going to happen if guns are outlawed is that law-abiding people won't carry them and criminals still will.

And yes, I do realize that there are some deaths that would have been prevented if guns were less accessible. But there are also a lot of deaths, assaults, and rapes that are prevented because guns were accessible. Every society has to make these choices and trade-offs. Cars kill a lot more people than guns (and actually cars can also be used as lethal weapons on purpose -- there have been incidents of people deliberately plowing their car into a crowd of innocent bystanders).

Anyway... I would definitely consider getting a gun if I felt I was in danger. I will say, though, that if you're going to get a gun it's very important to have good training in firearm use and safety. Personally I think it's a choice that should be available to people.

Well said, DoT.

Just wanted to add something about training in self-defense without weapons. Sure, it's a great idea, but I think people may underestimate the extent of both skill and psychological resolve it takes to successfully defend oneself in hand-to-hand combat. (For one thing, any normal person has a built-in barrier to deliberately trying to hurt or injure someone -- a gun makes it easier due to lack of direct physical contact.) Just as a gun can sometimes end up making you a target, trying to defend yourself with martial arts-type moves can backfire if you can't do it properly -- all you'll end up doing is pissing off your attacker.

Very interesting, DoT! I think, too, it's important to realize that a class is not the same as a real-life situation.