Ares & (non)Sexuality

Re: Ares & (non)Sexuality

feeds@yuku.com (ApollotheArcher) — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 21:07:28 GMT

I do think that Ares could have been played as a nonsexual character, but it would have been a waste. Kevin and Lucy look so good together that it would have been strange if there had been no attraction between them.

Re: Ares & (non)Sexuality

feeds@yuku.com (Aurora Goddess) — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 20:03:36 GMT

Yeah, good point about his interaction with Gabrielle. While it was the same type of thing he did on Xena on POV (not exactly the same but in the sense that he shows her his powers) didn't feel sexual to me like it definitely did with Xena. So, I think his sexual tendencies were reserved for those he felt like interacting that way with.

I also agree that Xena was much better as a full mortal and I really wouldn't have wanted her to be half god. Still, it would have been...

Re: Ares & (non)Sexuality

feeds@yuku.com (MoyCullen) — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 19:56:25 GMT

I think we did see one example of an Ares' attempted seduction to the dark side without sexual undertones in Seeds of Faith when he is trying to lure Gabrielle. Although by no means a failure (well Ares failed but not the execution), that didn't feel nearly as intense as to me as what is usually portrayed with Xena. The sexual element does ratchet it up significantly as its really a dual seduction and therefore, more personal. Ares seemed more...

Re: Ares & (non)Sexuality

feeds@yuku.com (LadyKate63) — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 22:55:40 GMT

The two episodes I can think of where they really played up the sexual aspect of Ares' seductiveness, and the whole "sexual seduction as a metaphor for the seductiveness of the dark side," were The Reckoning and The Biter Suite.

However, I never really got a "sex is evil/dark/sinful" vibe from those episodes, the way I did from Heart of Darkness. Maybe because in both TR and TBS, it was the "war" and "violence"...

Re: Ares & (non)Sexuality

feeds@yuku.com (Aurora Goddess) — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 18:54:40 GMT

It would have changed so much of my view of them if Ares was never sexually attracted to and then in love with her. And probably because that was a main draw for me as a shipper. The sexual temptation went hand in hand with the temptation of the darkside but I don't necessarly think that meant that the sexual part of it was meant to be seen as evil. It was always about Ares wanting her back as a warlord first and foremost--his...

Re: Ares & (non)Sexuality

feeds@yuku.com (LadyKate63) — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 04:35:42 GMT

I have to confess that was my initial reaction to "bodily fluids" as well. What dirty minds we have!

Jolly, interesting point -- I guess we've now shifted grounds from a nonsexual X/A relationship to a not-overtly-sexual X/A relationship? I would argue that that's what it mostly was until...

Re: Ares & (non)Sexuality

feeds@yuku.com (TheJollyApe) — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 04:20:54 GMT

Elfrieda wrote:
I have to disagree that the sexual tension was portrayed as evil on the show - the "evil" was that Ares wanted Xena back fighting for him, not that he wanted her sexually.

Yes, but by using it as a metaphor like that it automatically turns lust into something negative (and I disagree with the Catholics on this). And it's not just from his point of view. I dislike how the...

Re: Ares & (non)Sexuality

feeds@yuku.com (Xenasgrrl) — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 04:18:45 GMT

ok ok, good point, some spit was probably swapped and I guess thats bodily fluids but...it sounded like so much more!

Re: Ares & (non)Sexuality

feeds@yuku.com (TheJollyApe) — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 04:13:19 GMT

Well, there were a few times when I think it would have been hard to do what they did without at least some saliva being misplaced.

Re: Ares & (non)Sexuality

feeds@yuku.com (Elfrieda) — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 04:11:19 GMT

I think they still could have done something to make it a temptation for Xena (to go back to Ares and being a warlord, etc.) without the extreme sexual tension, but I think it might have been more forced, somehow. There might have been more stuff like in TR where Ares tries to show Xena how she can fight for a better world, etc., but I don't think it would have been nearly as interesting, since there was a personal relationship between them on the show that ran deeper than just a war...

Re: Ares & (non)Sexuality

feeds@yuku.com (Xenasgrrl) — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 04:02:13 GMT

but it would have been amazing if they could have shown the type of intensity they had now without swapping body fluids.

wow I was just reading this thread out of curiosity but had nothing much to add or say, however...Jolly, are you saying they DID swap body fluids? Because I don't recall any fluid swapping between Xena and Ares. Nipple biting yes. Red glow, ok...but no fluid was exchanged.
...

Re: Ares & (non)Sexuality

feeds@yuku.com (TheJollyApe) — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 03:42:36 GMT

His sexual nature works very well. However the reason for this thread, and why I grumble is because it feels a little like a cheap route to take.

XWP was otherwise a show that broke all types of norms and was generally sneaky. To have this view as the only overt sexual elements on the show as a sign of the darkside and "evil" makes me sigh a little, because I personally don't think sex is evil nor that it should have to be portrayed as such.

I would have...

Re: Ares & (non)Sexuality

feeds@yuku.com (LadyKate63) — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 23:43:15 GMT

Oh, Ares certainly wasn't portrayed as nonsexual on H:TLJ. He fathered a child with Nemesis (Evander), and Hercules mentioned that Ares has fathered "thousands" of children he doesn't care about. He also, as I said in my previous post, hit on Morrigan and Nebula, without much success. Oh, and he got it on with AU Nebula in Stranger and Stranger. What I'm saying is, he didn't really seem to ooze sexuality and seduction the way he did on X:WP -- maybe because...

Re: Ares & (non)Sexuality

feeds@yuku.com (Haephestus) — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 20:39:42 GMT

Ah. I don't think I've ever seen Ares on Hercules (at least not the episodes where he was played by KS as opposed to being a bubbling pool of blood or similar).

Strange that he was portrayed in such a different manner, but I guess the shows had slightly different audiences in mind and there would have been all sorts of issues with incest if Ares tried using his seduction tactics on Hercules.

And if Ares wasn't to be a "sexual" presence in the series,...

Re: Ares & (non)Sexuality

feeds@yuku.com (LadyKate63) — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 19:08:43 GMT

Haephestus said:

And Ares' sexuality is one of his personality traits. Ares was seductive from his very first appearance and it wasn't restricted to Xena. There was certain an element of seduction in his dealings with his other potential "Generals" like the warlord of the week in "Ties That Bind" and "Dirty Half Dozen". While it wasn't as explicit as his interactions with Xena, Callisto,...

Re: Ares & (non)Sexuality

feeds@yuku.com (Haephestus) — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 18:51:42 GMT

I'm no shipper, but one of the aspects I liked about how the Greek gods were handled on the show was the fact they were so "human" in their personality, actions, etc.

And Ares' sexuality is one of his personality traits. Ares was seductive from his very first appearance and it wasn't restricted to Xena. There was certain an element of seduction in his dealings with his other potential "Generals" like the warlord of the week in "Ties That...

Re: Ares & (non)Sexuality

feeds@yuku.com (Aurora Goddess) — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:11:54 GMT

If the relationship between Ares and Xena was completely non-sexual, I do like the idea of him being her father. I'll have to think about this topic some more and come back.

Re: Ares & (non)Sexuality

feeds@yuku.com (LadyRowanD) — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 16:58:00 GMT

LadyKate63 wrote:
Could Ares have developed this emotional connection with Xena if he wasn't "in lust" and then in love with her? I can't really see Ares as the kind of person who'd care deeply for someone (man or woman) as a platonic friend (and I think it would be problematic to portray the GoW as being any different in that respect). I think the only scenario in which I can see an interesting,...

Re: Ares & (non)Sexuality

feeds@yuku.com (LadyKate63) — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 16:47:08 GMT

I was going to say that as a shipper I obviously would have found their relationship lacking without the sexual element; but of course I wouldn't have known what I was missing, would I?

To answer the first part of your question: Sure, I could see Ares as a tempter without the sexual side -- though of course the temptation would not have been dramatized in nearly as alluring a way. There could have been more emphasis on...

Ares & (non)Sexuality

feeds@yuku.com (TheJollyApe) — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 03:54:50 GMT

The Ares we know was somewhat of a lovemachine. It doesn't help that Kevin Smith himself had sex appeal dripping out of his ears. However what would happen if we stripped Ares of the sex?

First of all (lets start slow), how would a purely platonic relationship to Xena work? Would you like it? Dislike it? What would it mean for the show and the characters? If you removed the sexual temptation from their relationship how else would it affect them? Could he be a tempter without the...