Switching FIN and WFC

Re: Switching FIN and WFC

feeds@yuku.com (LadyKate63) — Sun, 11 May 2008 21:02:53 GMT

Hmm ... but if Caesar was looking at the thread of Xena's fate he'd know what had happened to her, though.

I always understood his words metaphorically, just that Xena and Gabrielle are getting a "happy ending."

Re: Switching FIN and WFC

feeds@yuku.com (elsieaustin) — Sun, 11 May 2008 19:31:47 GMT

Well, I just always thought that all Caesar saw was X&G heading toward Jappa, so maybe she was dead at the point of the loom-tampering, but Caesar didn't know that.

Great discussion, too, by the way...sheds light on a part of a story that was always confusing to me!

Re: Switching FIN and WFC

feeds@yuku.com (JinxsMinx) — Sun, 11 May 2008 19:04:36 GMT

LadyKate63 wrote:
* I love the word "plausibly" in relation to the Xenaverse! *

Care to share why?

I really need to re-watch this ep...

Could it be that 'the riding off into the sunset' was metaphorical?

Orrrrrr!!! Better yet -...

Re: Switching FIN and WFC

feeds@yuku.com (LadyKate63) — Sun, 11 May 2008 18:52:36 GMT

Hmm, well... if Caesar's loom-tampering takes place post-FIN then I think you could sort of plausibly imagine * I love the word "plausibly" in relation to the Xenaverse! * that when the world reverts, Xena falls through a crack in time and returns to the real world alive. Which I guess is the point of reversing WFC and FIN.

Except, as I said -- I think Caesar's "Xena gets to ride off...

Re: Switching FIN and WFC

feeds@yuku.com (JinxsMinx) — Sun, 11 May 2008 18:47:57 GMT

Wow!! 60.... Grandma Hottie.... *coughs* ...sorry 'bout that...

This is true of course. Logically, they'd be around that age. (wow again) And yes, he would have had to have made his world take place before the gap. Otherwise everyone's age would actually show. And why would he bring himself back to life some 40 years after he died? With that amount of time he could easily have been put out of power or something. It makes sense for him to come back at the height of his...

Re: Switching FIN and WFC

feeds@yuku.com (LadyKate63) — Sun, 11 May 2008 18:15:08 GMT

The destruction of the loom bringing back the world did seem weird to me at first, but I've boiled it down to the burning only destroying Caesar's reality. With every piece that goes into the loom, the future is altered. So the moment Caesar he stepped into *wherever the Fates to their business* a new "starting point" was generated. Anything happening after that moment would be on a clean slate so to speak, overriding the "old settings" if you...

Re: Switching FIN and WFC

feeds@yuku.com (JinxsMinx) — Sun, 11 May 2008 17:14:23 GMT

Hmm, interesting theory. I never thought of it that way before. I suppose WFC could be post-FIN, but the already chilly reunion at the end would seem even more surreal if that were to be the case. Gabby having lost Xena, presumably forever, in FIN and they meet again and all they say is Hey and talk about a play? C'mon... I don't buy it. Not the subber-me nor the friendshipper-me. That's the one bit I don't...

Re: Switching FIN and WFC

feeds@yuku.com (LadyKate63) — Sun, 11 May 2008 15:46:27 GMT

Oh, well if you're determined enough there's always a way to make something work!

(Personally I prefer to either ignore FIN altogether -- it was Gabrielle trying her hand at fanfiction, I tell you! -- or adopt the Shipper Seasons as my canon. )

Re the sig -- thanks, elsie! I'm getting a...

Re: Switching FIN and WFC

feeds@yuku.com (elsieaustin) — Sun, 11 May 2008 10:52:31 GMT

No, I agree that there's no evidence that it happened in canon--in fact, it would be pushing logic to go with the theory that many manipulations (not just the clearly supernatural ones, or the one that Caesar changed), changed after the loom was destroyed. I'm just saying that's one possible way to make it work (without contradicting canon, even if also without taking the most logical explanation of canon), if you're (I'm) determined enough to do it.

Re: Switching FIN and WFC

feeds@yuku.com (LadyKate63) — Sat, 10 May 2008 21:02:48 GMT

Hmm, elsie... I don't know. I don't think there was any supernatural manipulation involved in Xena going with Akemi. Anyway, wouldn't the timeline change only after the point at which the loom was destroyed?

Actually it would have been pretty interesting if they came back to "their" world only to discover it wasn't "their" world at all. Or that they'd gone back to...

Re: Switching FIN and WFC

feeds@yuku.com (elsieaustin) — Sat, 10 May 2008 06:49:54 GMT

Dahllaz, . You remember your "FIN never happened, so say we all" Battlestar Galactica joke? I reposted that in my livejournal, and promptly got into a huge FIN debate!!

I think that if we're determined enough to switch the order of the episodes, it can be done.

The point about Caesar thinking Xena rode off into the sunset "with her girlfriend" is the easiest one to get around in my mind. Simply...

Re: Switching FIN and WFC

feeds@yuku.com (dahllaz) — Mon, 05 May 2008 19:50:13 GMT

Damn it. Those are good points. *pouts* damn it

*sticks fingers in ears* lalala i can't hear you!! lalala
Wait. That doesn't work very well.
*covers eyes* lalala...

Re: Switching FIN and WFC

feeds@yuku.com (LadyKate63) — Mon, 05 May 2008 15:30:26 GMT

I think the idea is that the Loom of the Fates was no longer needed because the time of the old gods had passed and the loom no longer had any real power... (except, in that case, why did Caesar's tampering with the loom create a new world? )

Or maybe the idea is that Gabrielle's destruction of the loom frees humanity from the bonds of Fate, leaving people in control of their own destiny. Which would be kind of...

Re: Switching FIN and WFC

feeds@yuku.com (xena321) — Mon, 05 May 2008 10:59:49 GMT

I'll have to think about this one.

Interesting point someone made here, about history reverted back to what it was 25 years ago, after the loom was destroyed.

Re: Switching FIN and WFC

feeds@yuku.com (xwpweb) — Fri, 02 May 2008 17:28:49 GMT

I don't think it would have worked because the ending to WFC was too "blah" for me.

Re: Switching FIN and WFC

feeds@yuku.com (dahllaz) — Fri, 02 May 2008 16:04:11 GMT

It's just recently that I read about this theory and it is a pretty cool one. Just not sure exactly how it works...but that is my general feeling regarding messing around with the timeline on any show.
Guess just not thinking about it that hard is the key for me. *sticks fingers in ears, sings "lalala, I can't hear you! FIN is no more! Wheee!"*

Like...

Re: Switching FIN and WFC

feeds@yuku.com (Amphipolite) — Fri, 02 May 2008 12:46:38 GMT

The multiple timelines theory makes a lot of sense to me.

I just watched WFC collide recently and I couldn't figure out how destroying rather than repairing the loom would restore the previous timeline.

Re: Switching FIN and WFC

feeds@yuku.com (softershade) — Fri, 02 May 2008 01:09:07 GMT

I definitely like the idea of switching the episodes. WFC always seemed like a great place to end it with things going back to the way they were, either before or after the 25 years, and with Xena and Gabby riding off. That to me seems so much more appropriate and appeals to my taste.
When it comes to the question of the timelines, I don't think there are multiple ones after the loom is destroyed. I think it's more of when Caesar altered the loom he created his own timeline and...

Re: Switching FIN and WFC

feeds@yuku.com (Aurora Goddess) — Fri, 02 May 2008 00:37:14 GMT

In that same thinking, about a different universe being created, I've heard it speculated that it's possible that after the loom was destroyed, history reverted back to what it was 25 years ago, before the ice cave sleep (since that is the timeline that was used during WFC). That is at least somewhat plausible considering Akemi is asking for Xena's help in AFIN and how would Akemi know that Xena hadn't aged 25 years older? (unless she can see her from whatever death land she...

Re: Switching FIN and WFC

feeds@yuku.com (HelAreyn) — Fri, 02 May 2008 00:29:11 GMT

Yeah I'll subscribe to the parallel infinite universes idea, and say that after AFIN we see an alternate universe, in which the events of WFC happen, and this would further spur Gabrielle on to burn the loom, even though that incarnation didn't specifically know why she was doing it to the full extent that I think the Gabrielle from our usual universe would have been cosmically influencing her to make that decision. Thats my almost midnight idea for the nonce, and I shall now go sleep...

Switching FIN and WFC

feeds@yuku.com (LadyKate63) — Thu, 01 May 2008 21:44:00 GMT

I've seen a few people say that their preferred way of dealing with the finale is to switch around A Friend in Need and When Fates Collide so that WFC happens post-FIN, and Xena is alive and reunited with Gabrielle in the universe restored after Gabrielle burns the loom. Just the other day someone commented (I believe in Aurora's "re-ordering the episodes" thread) that this works well because...