Re: I'M NOT A SUBTEXTER BUT...

feeds@yuku.com (calliopes muse) — Thu, 01 May 2008 14:16:07 GMT

Plus those two are just so fracking cute together. I watch them in their most subtexty of subtext moments and I just turn into a little pile of mush. *mush*

OMG, I know!!! They're just so cute in those little subtexty moments. ***sigh***

For me personally, the idea of a mystical/magical bond between a couple is more of a turnoff.

That's a good example of what I meant that we all apply our own desires and beliefs to the characters....

Re: I'M NOT A SUBTEXTER BUT...

feeds@yuku.com (JustSayNoToNutbread) — Thu, 01 May 2008 12:34:57 GMT

Well now that you mention it, Leigh, how dare you?!

Re: I'M NOT A SUBTEXTER BUT...

feeds@yuku.com (xenaandgab4eva) — Thu, 01 May 2008 11:49:33 GMT

LadyKate63 wrote:
Leigh.... of course I know you meant that in a good way!

Well, I don't know, I was thinking you might have thought I meant "you never cease to amaze me with your persistent love of...

Re: I'M NOT A SUBTEXTER BUT...

feeds@yuku.com (vampirecookies) — Thu, 01 May 2008 11:19:43 GMT

LadyKate63 wrote:
Just one thing I wanted to add. I have to say I strongly disagree with the idea, which lara1862 stated on the second page of this thread, that the ambiguous/subtextual nature of the relationship was due simply to having to dance around the censors, and that after a certain point TPTB were making the show with the assumption that Xena and Gabrielle were lovers, just without...

Re: I'M NOT A SUBTEXTER BUT...

feeds@yuku.com (LadyKate63) — Thu, 01 May 2008 07:31:32 GMT

Leigh.... of course I know you meant that in a good way!

Just one thing I wanted to add. I have to say I strongly disagree with the idea, which lara1862 stated on the second page of this thread, that the ambiguous/subtextual nature of the relationship was due simply to having to dance around the censors, and that after a certain point TPTB were making the show with the...

Re: I'M NOT A SUBTEXTER BUT...

feeds@yuku.com (xenawp7706) — Thu, 01 May 2008 04:21:18 GMT

Yeah I agree LK. Good points as usual

Re: I'M NOT A SUBTEXTER BUT...

feeds@yuku.com (xenaandgab4eva) — Thu, 01 May 2008 00:58:15 GMT

LK! You never cease to amaze me!

Just to add on to what has just been said...I haven't had an actual serious relationship yet, so I can't say I'm a subtexter because of my experience....rather it's what I most want in my life. The idea of falling in love with your best friend is just amazing to me, and that is the main reason why I just adore the relationship between X and G.

Plus those two are just so fracking cute together.

Re: I'M NOT A SUBTEXTER BUT...

feeds@yuku.com (vampirecookies) — Thu, 01 May 2008 00:27:53 GMT

calliopes muse wrote:
I think personal experience and personal taste in relationships plays a factor in how we see the show. You mention this "two people couldn't possibly be so devoted to each other unless they've lovers." For me, that's actually my personal experience and the appeal of X & G's relationship...
I'm right with you there, Ms. Muse. I don't think I've ever...

Re: I'M NOT A SUBTEXTER BUT...

feeds@yuku.com (calliopes muse) — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:12:40 GMT
You make really good points, LadyKate. I think personal experience and personal taste in relationships plays a factor in how we see the show. You mention this "two people couldn't possibly be so devoted to each other unless they've lovers." For me, that's actually my personal experience and the appeal of X & G's relationship, but I think that's because only my partner holds the most important place in my heart. She's my best friend and my lover so for me,...

Re: I'M NOT A SUBTEXTER BUT...

feeds@yuku.com (LadyKate63) — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:25:01 GMT

So, my 2 cents on the subject, as someone who has been in the fandom for about 7 years.

A lot of very thoughtful posts in this discussion, on all sides. I think that GrrlRomeo, elsie austin and calliope's s muse have all done a great job of explaining why debates on this subject can get very intense on both a personal and political level.

When it comes to relationships, I'm a Xena/Ares shipper and a Xena/Gabrielle friendshipper (though...

Re: I'M NOT A SUBTEXTER BUT...

feeds@yuku.com (vampirecookies) — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:00:53 GMT

smutterly1 wrote:

MoyCullen wrote:
My feeling is that to tell anyone that their interpretation is wrong or illegitimate because of blah-blah-blah would be akin to telling someone that red can't possibly be their favorite color because blue is a much better color.

...but it IS!!!

Re: I'M NOT A SUBTEXTER BUT...

feeds@yuku.com (smutterly1) — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 11:46:17 GMT

MoyCullen wrote:
My feeling is that to tell anyone that their interpretation is wrong or illegitimate because of blah-blah-blah would be akin to telling someone that red can't possibly be their favorite color because blue is a much better color.

...but it IS!!!

Re: I'M NOT A SUBTEXTER BUT...

feeds@yuku.com (calliopes muse) — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:46:36 GMT

Nittany Lioness 1 wrote:
We have to keep in mind though, natyxg, that there's always going to be new participants entering the fandom in these discussions.
Their fresh reactions are sometimes our old dead ... horses. (Ewww... I hate that graphic.)

You're right about that. I'm new to the fandom but I'm not new to defending my identity, my sexuality, and even my representation in popular...

Re: I'M NOT A SUBTEXTER BUT...

feeds@yuku.com (Nittany Lioness 1) — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:12:54 GMT
We have to keep in mind though, natyxg, that there's always going to be new participants entering the fandom in these discussions.
Their fresh reactions are sometimes our old dead ... horses. (Ewww... I hate that graphic.)

Re: I'M NOT A SUBTEXTER BUT...

feeds@yuku.com (Lizou06) — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 04:06:34 GMT

MoyCullen wrote:
The only other relationship like Xena and Gabrielle that I've seen portrayed on television was Mulder and Scully

If you go back to the Sixties, there's also John Steed and Emma Peel, in the Avengers...

Re: I'M NOT A SUBTEXTER BUT...

feeds@yuku.com (natyxg) — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 01:22:01 GMT
Well, I can't say that I read the gazillion long responses to this thread. I've just been around this online fandom for so long (going on 7 years) that I have seen and responded to similar topics a gazillion times. Now, I don't mean to be rude (and I hope I don't get across that way), but to me, the only thing I can say about this topic is that I feel that we're doing this:

Re: I'M NOT A SUBTEXTER BUT...

feeds@yuku.com (MoyCullen) — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:14:06 GMT
Having just read through this entire thread, I want to applaud the very civil, thoughtful and insightful comments by all of you on what can be a contentious subject.

I don't have much to add to the conversation other than to echo the feeling that there is no more or less valid interpretation of Xena and Gabrielle's relationship. For me, first and foremost, their relationship is the most appealing and important aspect of the show. There are many other reasons I love the show,...

Re: I'M NOT A SUBTEXTER BUT...

feeds@yuku.com (xenawp7706) — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 03:53:36 GMT
I agree with you

Re: I'M NOT A SUBTEXTER BUT...

feeds@yuku.com (GrrrlRomeo) — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:32:32 GMT
Ojima: I pick up on the subtleties because I'm used to picking up subtleties. It's not even because I'm gay, it's because of my temperament. When I meet someone, I don't remember what they wore or what they said word for word. I remember the general idea of the conversation, the tone of their voice, and their body language.

Although when we say subtext we mean lesbian subtext here, but there is plenty of subtext that occurred between them and male characters. And...

Re: I'M NOT A SUBTEXTER BUT...

feeds@yuku.com (Ojima) — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 14:29:23 GMT
I know this sounds weird... but the whole thing is like the topics that have been put on the boards talking about what people do with their "friends" and gabby and xena did things most don't do with their friends.

It is almost.... I don't know... impractical for their lives not to be lovers. Maybe that sounds weird, but they had urges right, if they weren't getting it with each other I'm sure we would've seen more men. Also... I don't know, I'm...

I'M NOT A SUBTEXTER BUT...

feeds@yuku.com (lorepoidoc) — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 15:58:30 GMT

I'm not a subtexter as I said and always appreciate the answer Your extremely clever and gentleman husband mr Tapert said in some interviews or in question&ask. I'm not blind and I really think there is not only friendship between Xena and Gabby but not in the exaggerated way some fans see it. Well, lesbians ( I have some friends on that wide spread community) can't help to see...